Akumal, Mexico
1 hour ago
Sunday, April 16, 2017
United Airlines
What concerns and upsets me the most about the United Airlines incident is the actions of the police! What is next? You buy and pay for a new car and then the cops show up at your door, kick the shit out of you and take the car back to the dealer? What about a house? The realtor or previous owner sends the cops to drag you out of your house after you have bought it? Who are the police "Serving and Protecting" anyway? The public or their corporate masters?
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As a fairly frequent flier, my opinion is that nobody in that situation acted properly, and the whole things could have so easily been avoided. By "nobody", I include the doctor who was abused. He also did not act properly. Everybody involved is at fault.
ReplyDeleteI search and search to buy airline tickets at least six months in advance when planning a trip. I don't know how people do it but some buy tickets up to the very last minute of their planned trip. I have never been that lucky. Like Kevin Read, my tickets are bought months in advance. Why in the heck would I want to volunteer to get off the plane after trying so hard to find the most reasonable ticket? I'd probably would have put up a complaint and demanded I be scheduled to be put on the very next flight. I thought the motto of most businesses including the airlines was 'the customer is always right.' I believe the airlines have misused their authority in calling the police and having a customer dragged off the plane for non paying employees?! Give me a break...put those employees on the next flight.
ReplyDeleteLike Kevin Read, my tickets are bought months in advance.
DeleteRita, I do not always buy our tickets months in advance.
Why in the heck would I want to volunteer to get off the plane after trying so hard to find the most reasonable ticket?
I would...in an instant. I don't know what the compensation was offered in this particular situation, but knowing that I got a great deal on the flight to begin with, the compensation would be well worth it to us. Jackpot! Pay me off, and I'm totally happy to volunteer.
I'd probably would have put up a complaint and demanded I be scheduled to be put on the very next flight.
Of course...that would be normal procedure.
Ultimately, everybody who flies knows (or should know) that there is a possibility of getting bumped due to overbooking. It's been like that for many many years. Ruth and I got bumped off a flight to New York City back in 2000. We got vouchers for $300 each and put in first class on the next outgoing flight. No problem by me!
I flew United to and from Cancun, Mexico in March 2017. I didn't realize many of normal services in Cancun had to be prepaid because drivers, waiters, etc are not allowed to handle credit cards or money. The airline shuttle service specific stated there would be no refund if you failed to use the shuttle. Many of the events had to be prepaid due to this no handling credit card or money issue. Had I been asked to get off the plane would mean I would loose $50 round trip shuttle to and from airport, loose money for first night of resort stay & possibly loose my entire reservation for not showing up on first night, etc. I don't think I'd be able to use the airlines offer of a voucher to replace these prepaid expenses had I been asked to volunteer to get off. I still say United should have put their flight attendants on the next flight even if its on a different airline.
DeleteI tend to agree with Kevin on this. The only thing I might disagree with is once you are in the plane there should be no asking people to get off. Asking for volunteers to take a later flight and then choosing people should all happen at the gate and not inside the plane. If United had done that I am quite certain we would never had heard about this issue.
ReplyDeleteBut the passenger immediately saw it as a way to get some money for deep pockets. He was on the phone talking about suing them even before the security thugs got there.
Don, I agree with you that United should have bumped people at the gate, no doubt about it, NOT when the passengers had taken possession of their seats. US laws need to be more clear about that. The analogies which Croft mentioned above regarding cars, real estate, etc. are appropriate. The agreement with the airline (which has received your money) has been consummated once you are in possession of the seat paid for and you have agreed to use that seat under certain rules and regulations. Also, US law provides that the airline can "repurchase" that seat you possess for up to US$1,350 (coach). The highest amount offered on this flight was US$800. So, there was an alternative which was never offered.
DeleteSecondly, the Chicago Aviation Authority is not employed by the airlines. Even though the airline may wish the aviation authority to do something about this passenger, when he at first "passively" resisted (after the agreement with the airline had been consummated and possessed his seat), the aviation authority personnel should have sought advice from their superiors. After all, they were not dealing with a terrorist on the plane. Also, the airline could have offered the legal limit of $1,350 to anyone else on that plane.
P.S. In addition, the airline can pad that cash with free flying vouchers, upgrades to first class, and meal and hotel vouchers.
DeleteUnited is now saying their customer service people are authorized to offer up to $10,000 per passenger. As you point out, they only offered $800.
DeleteCroft, that $10,000 may not include just pure cash, but may include incentives in other forms which the airline subjectively puts a value on. There is a formula used by US law to determine the maximum amount of "cash" which can be offered for a specific flight. The additional incentives are the way the airlines get around US cash law for a specific flight. Heck, the airlines would prefer to use nothing but incentive vouchers anyway!
DeleteSorry, I am wrong. It is Delta that says they will offer up to $10,000
DeleteThe Chicago Aviation Police officers, although not part of the Chicago Police Department are "police certified" and certainly look like police. They are governed by the city and have power of arrest although the City has determined that these powers of arrest did not extend into this case. All three officers are on administrative leave pending investigation of their actions.
ReplyDeleteAnd, they should be. All they had to do was make a call to their superiors. It seems to me they were taking their direction exclusively from the airline. They forgot who they were working for and who paid their salary. If I were that passenger, I would sue the Chicago Aviation Authority, but as most governmental agencies in the US are now protected by a ceiling as to how much they can be sued for, he went for the "deep pocket," the airline.
DeleteUltimately, the courts will decide. But "if I were that passenger", I would have got off the plane as was requested of me and as the other three passengers did. I think the guy is a moron for allowing that to happen to himself.
DeleteYou are right about that; he was a moron. All he had to do (with evidence of witnesses present and a video running) after being verbally threatened with bodily harm and possibly after they put their hands on him was to say he would leave quietly. Then he could have kept his teeth and still lodged criminal and civil suits against the entities responsible, particularly the one who gave the directive. It still would be an award of large punitive damages; I'll bet attorneys are calling him like crazy. No doubt the airline person who the aviation authority guys spoke with will disappear or be transferred. The hunt is on.
DeleteSo then if that's the case there is no need for customer service. United is a private business and people deserve to receive what they pay for. Let's say you have a connection to Europe and you'll miss it. The connection is not on United. Then what? Who's responsible for compensation? Trust me, United will say they're not. The situation is just a look into the near future of what businesses can get away with.
ReplyDeleteChris, there are many US aviation laws to protect airlines in this country, and a passenger missing a connection is airline protected because of acts of God, mechanical malfunctions, etc. However, when an airline's flights are habitually late, those statistics are published and a grade of poor, fair, good, very good, and excellent are published, for instance, by Travelocity before you purchase your ticket. It is just like the published statistics of airlines which misdirect or lose the most luggage. Missing a connection is nothing compared to an airline screw up and attempting to have passengers correct their screw up by threatening bodily harm to passengers who have taken their seats, when a true airline professional could come up with creative alternatives. Unless the passengers are terrorists or are a danger to other passengers and crew or intentionally disturbing the peace of the airplane cabin, violence should not be tolerated by anyone.
DeleteDee I'm with you. Maybe I didn't post the message properly. United didn't do the right thing and neither did the officials.
DeleteThis is a very good read with lots of information regarding the "incident" https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/
ReplyDeleteEveryone should read that. Thanks.
DeleteYes, my next medical emergency I shall consult my doctor's wife. But then here is an even better response to the pilot's wife's letter from a real doctor:
Deletehttps://medium.com/@trailmikks/an-open-letter-response-to-the-pilots-wife-open-letter-b0c20896c64a
The point the writer of the letter I pointed to was that every professional law enforcement officer knows you do not move anyone who has suffered a head injury. In the United case a doctor or an ambulance crew should have been called onto the aircraft as soon as the head injury was noticed and he should absolutely not have been dragged down the isle by his feet with his head subject to even more injury. The "police" and the City of Chicago who employs them are liable as well as United. A lot of money is going to be paid out here.
DeleteApparently Pilot Wife did not read the airline rules according to responses on their FB website. And, people were upset that she referred the incident to 9/11. They say this was not a terrorist and most say once passenger took possession of their seats, they should not be removed. It'll be interesting to find out what happens in court.
DeleteRita, this will never get to court. United (with their large battery of lawyers) wants this situation over and done with; it is a public relations fiasco, and United's stock has already been dropping in price. This situation will be settled out of court with both United and the Chicago Aviation Authority for a very large sum of money and a settlement confidentiality agreement signed by the victim. However, 21 US Senators have already jumped on this matter and together have sent a letter to the CEO of United asking the very same questions I have posed in this blog. In addition, in a Chicago Aviation Committee meeting of City Council, questions have arisen as to why their personnel were on the aircraft in the first place for a NON-SECURITY matter of a passive dispute between United Customer service and a passenger.
DeleteThe passenger being dragged off the plan happened after I returned from Cancun, Mexico. I flew United to and from Cancun. I flight attendants never smiled (at least in my area) and roughly asked if you wanted something to drink all the while glaring intensely at you. I thought it was just me because I am brown but she was the same with other non-brown passengers. I chalked it up to maybe a bad day for the attendants until I heard the news about a passenger being dragged off due to overbooking. I was meeting a group of people at a resort (prepaid and many of our events were prepaid) so if the airline had asked me to get off the plane I don't know what I would have done. I mean I had to prepay the airport shuttle because non of the shuttles are allowed to handle credit cards or money. My trips would have been absolutely scrambled and no refunds from many prepaids i.e. shuttle service. They say no refunds if you fail to show up or not use the shuttle per their web sites. I'm just glad I came home safe and sound with no airline problems.
ReplyDeleteUAL was actually $2.50 lower about a month ago. They haven't really lost much in value.
ReplyDelete